Every tongue confesses, Part 2
Somebody responded to my previous blog about Ann Coulter's latest outrage, the one where she said what a wonderful world it would be if all the Jews saw the light, this way:
"Ann Coulter says the same thing Michael Riley says (and every other minister and Rabbi for that matter). The difference is Riley says it more politely. Same meaning, different words."
Not to put too fine a point on it, but that's about six different kinds of wrong.
Judaism is not what you would call a prosyletizing religion. So rabbis are not saying the sort of thing that Ann Coulter says.
And while there are some Christians who would think nothing of buttonholing Jewish people and bending their ears about how if they would just read the Old Testament they'd see Jesus playing peek-a-boo all over its pages, I'm not one of them. And neither are most ministers I know.
And by the way, using different words often means you're trying to convey a different meaning.
"Ann Coulter says the same thing Michael Riley says (and every other minister and Rabbi for that matter). The difference is Riley says it more politely. Same meaning, different words."
Not to put too fine a point on it, but that's about six different kinds of wrong.
Judaism is not what you would call a prosyletizing religion. So rabbis are not saying the sort of thing that Ann Coulter says.
And while there are some Christians who would think nothing of buttonholing Jewish people and bending their ears about how if they would just read the Old Testament they'd see Jesus playing peek-a-boo all over its pages, I'm not one of them. And neither are most ministers I know.
And by the way, using different words often means you're trying to convey a different meaning.
posted by Michael Riley at 11:12 AM
31 Comments:
What are the other five? You know that what Ann said is correct.
I was a bit surprized at that post. Even as one who has no use for religion at least I can make a distinction between conservative and liberal religion (especially Christianity). They're two entirely different beasts.
See Churches Under Seige for an example of the conflict.
I was "surprised" with an "s", that Ray can't spell. BTW- it's siege, not seige.
Dear Mr. Riley,
You create a nice straw man to beat upon when you changed the subject to whether varied religions have an evangelical requirement. That of course had nothing to do with my post.
My post was about what people truly think of their own religions.
You do believe in what Ann Coulter said. You just think it impolite to say so. You shouldn't.
We can respect one another's right to have his own religion, but at the same time it is OK to express that we think the other religion is doing it wrong.
When we accept our belief in our own religion, by default, we are rejecting the belief of the other religion.
Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the same God, the God of Abraham.
Where we split is on Jesus being God.
As a Reverend, I assume you do accept Jesus as the Lord. In doing so, you reject the idea that He is not Lord. You reject the belief of Jews and Muslims.
That does not mean you disrespect them, but you do think they are "doing it wrong."
They may respect you and your beliefs, but it does not change the fact that they think you are "doing it wrong" when you pray to Jesus as God.
A couple months back the Pope declared that the Catholic Church was the "one true church."
Many people were upset by that. Why?
What did they expect THE POPE to say? This?: "Well I kinda like this Catholic stuff, and I guess its kinda right, but I'm not like, you know, married to it or anything."
Good grief.
HE'S THE POPE!!! I expect from him unwavering belief that his Church is the one true church.
Now look at what a very smart Rabbi said of the Pope's statement:
In an article titled The Pope’s Got A Point and published in the July 18 issue of The Jewish Press, Rabbi Yerachmiel Seplowitz says he is “not at all put off by the fact that the leader of another religion sees that religion as primary.”
“What the pope is saying – and I agree 100 percent – is that there are irreconcilable differences, and we can’t pretend those differences don’t exist,” he states. “I can respect the pope for making an unambiguous statement of what he believes.”
"While all people, created in God’s image, and their beliefs are worthy of respect, we do not need to play games of ‘I’m okay, your okay’ with beliefs we find unacceptable,” he writes."
Thank you Rabbi.
You see Mr. Riley, Ann Coulter, Rabbi Seplowitz and me are willing to respect Jews and Christians, love Jews and Christians, be kind to Jews and Christians, help Jews and Christians, defend Jews and Christians, etc.
At the same time, when we bend our knee to pray, we still know we have different beliefs from one another.
Since we believe it, true honesty says that we shouldn't be afraid to say it. To admit it. To live with it. Lest we live a lie.
That is true no matter how impolite you and Donny Deutsch think honesty can be.
Why is Ann Coulters views any more offensive then those yakers on the View,and those movie stars in
Hollowood?
Why doesn't Michael address those two gay men dressed up as nuns and taking communion in a Catholic church in San Fran, or the leather parade in San Fran with a billboard of the Last Supper with 12 dressed in leather and collars?
anonymous wrote:
I was "surprised" with an "s", that Ray can't spell. BTW- it's siege, not seige."
Here we see again how small minds view small things as important. So he's found a misspelling. Deep stuff, son. One can only wonder what motivates you and what has led to such strange priorities. Incompetent parents? Sexual abuse by a sibling? Drug abuse? I can imagine how your world all but collapsed when Jeffery Daumer died.
And again, you're wrong about 'surprize'. Both forms (with an 's' and with a 'z') are acceptable. Buy a dictionary, son.
Yeah, if you live in Europe, "pops". I guess I can blame my atheist parents for the bad morals. Ring a bell, dad?
Riley, you are in no position to speak for "most ministers." Most ministers don't think very much of you.
anonymous wrote:
"Yeah, if you live in Europe, "pops". I guess I can blame my atheist parents for the bad morals. Ring a bell, dad?"
Another non sequitur. And you probably don't even know your parents. They probably ran away from home when they saw what they brought into the world. Your bad morals are your own problem, son. No excuses.
Ray a dad? That is funny. Ray lives at home with mom and delivers pizza at night.
No ray plays on the computer(and probably with himself) at night exchanging barbs with fellow losers.
Now anonymous is pretending to be more than one anonymi.
It shows that he can't respond to any real discussions and is relegated to sniping from the sidelines.
I am not the pizza comment anonymi.
Who cares? Your comments are just as meaningless. You still can't contribute anything worth our while. You're just a blog terrorist bent on disruption. Grow up.
It's always funny to watch Ray accuse others of the very shortcomings that are most glaring in his own personality. You more than anyone, Ray, engage in the very sort of ad hominem remarks that you now claim to deplore. Hypocrisy fits you rather well.
I know i am but what are you?
Try again, anonymous. I've been discussing issues here for some time now. Yes, I'll meet the jerks who submit nothing but insults on their level just to show them that they'll get a fight. I've never complained about ad hominem remarks -- just posters who have nothing of meaning to say and who post nothing but insults. Read my posts again and see.
Pot calling kettle black-sorry african-american is PC.
Anonymous' presence here serves a function, believe it or not. He's teaching us how racism is alive and well and is a part of American life. He shows us how the political/ideological right thinks when under the protection of anonymity. He shows us how the Religious Reich is selfish and doesn't care a whit about others even though he and other bigots claim to worship Jesus, who taught them that their ways are wrong.
Thanks for the education, anonymous!
It's always the Religious Right with you, isn't it, Ray? You don't know a thing about this guy's religion or his politics but that doesn't stop you from intimating that conservatives and Christians are just like him. He's no more representative of the Christian Right than you are representative of the atheist Left. You are both petty and an embarrassment to yourselves.
And he is just as anonymous as the rest of us.
He may or may not be a part of the religious right. I was rubbing his nose in his comments, nevertheless. A bit extreme? Maybe. But that's what he gets. Maybe if you would chide him on his bigotry instead of ignoring it you could show us that you're not with him. Until then...
Do you know that Jesus' skin color was most likely darker than how most depict him in pictures/paintings?
Think about it. Think about the area where he came from, and how people from the area really look. They're not Scandinavian looking. He most likely did not have light eye color either.
Just mentioning it because of the skin color/race issue being brought up.
Margaret, Peggy honey. there is and was no Jesus.Is myth.No proof.Ask Ray again.
Condescending a-theist...sweetheart, your opinion is dually noted.
Duly.
I'm not sure if there was a historical Jesus or not. Frankly, I don't spend any time on the issue. If there was such a man I don't believe he was the son of any god. Thomas Jefferson thought similarly. He believed that there was a man named Jesus and that he was a good moral teacher, but he didn't believe in the divinity of Jesus. Jefferson clipped and saved the words of Jesus from the Bible and tossed the rest. Jefferson's Bible is still published today if anyone is interested. Probably not, though.
We (my daughter and her eighth grade class and I) went to the Jefferson Memorial in May. The statue is unique because he is noted for his words against slavery , and yet when you walk behind his statue, under his cloak are corn stalks and tobacco. This was to signify that he was a farmer, and actually had slaves to run his farm. So his words were beautiful, but he did not live them, as he had slaves.
Jefferson was definitely entitled to his opinion regarding Jesus. But I guess we can safely say he wasn't always right about things.
PS - thanks for the spell check. (Seriously, not facetiously)
Given that many (in fact, the overwhelming majority of) slaveowners were Christian, I guess it's fair to say they weren't always right about things, either. But they're definitely entitled to their opinion regarding Jesus.
So glad you think so, Ray. :)
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